Originally published at Trumplandia Magazine
Title: “Between Two Lampshades”
Running time: 2:49:26
Date Broadcast: Dec 14, 2016
Mike Enoch: OK, this is actually the most interesting podcast on the alt-right you’re gonna hear. It’s me, Mike Enoch, I’m here with Richard Spencer and Andrew Anglin. What’s the likelihood you’re gonna get all three of us on one radio program together?
Andrew Anglin: Well, in the future it could be more and more likely…
Richard Spencer: Yeah this will be the Nightly News, basically.
Enoch: We’re all here to show solidarity with each other, we all are coming from slightly different angles and approaches to this thing. But I think we’re all fundamentally on the same team. So, why not? Why the hell not?
Anglin: And more or less on the same page…
Enoch: Yeah. It’s 2016. It is the current year, so why the hell not?
Richard Spencer: 38, a man known for his distinctive hair: ash blonde, short at the back and sides in the style of the Hitler-youth, a cut now dubbed “The Fashy” by his supporters. Most often seen in public wearing expensive suits, he represents the professionalized wing of the alt-right. He is the head of the innocuously named white-nationalist think-tank the National Policy Institute, and is perhaps most famous for getting punched by an anti-fascist activist on Inauguration Day.
Andrew Anglin: 33, 5’2’’ inches tall, a college dropout with a shaved head, based in Ohio. Founder of the popular alt-right website the Daily Stormer, charmingly named after the Nazi weekly Der Stürmer, which claims to be “The World’s Most Visited Alt-Right Web Site.” The site has a section devoted to articles on the “Jewish Problem” and “Race War” and is aimed at millennial and high-school age white men.
“Mike Enoch” (pseudonym): Age unknown. Enoch is a more mysterious alt-right figure. He has a deep, raspy voice and a bro-ish, bantering sense of humor. He is co-host of the popular alt-right podcast “The Daily Shoah.” He is credited with inventing the (((echoes))) symbol used by anti-Semites to identify and target Jews online.
Podcast Intro: Jaunty guitar to the tune of “Under Pressure” by David Bowie:
Richard Spencer, Richard Spencer, Richard Spencer, Richard Spencer
Spencer, cut your hair like me, I cut my hair like you, yeah no more
Richard Spencer, don’t do that interview
Yeah, don’t talk to those Jews
They’re such dirty thieves
Don’t quote that
Don’t quote that please
Cut to: Fuzzy recording of Richard Spencer’s recent appearance at Texas A&M. He is being heckled by members of the audience. One man stands up to ask a question. He is wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the acronym BTHOOH. His voice is muffled, but Spencer’s microphone is clear. He asks the man what it stands for. “Beat The Hell Out Of Hate,” he replies. Spencer laughs. “I’m right here, why don’t you come beat me up?” he asks.“I’ve seen millions of people like you. You are a white coward.” Boos and cries from the audience. “You’re not even willing to do that. That t-shirt is total bullshit. You’re not even willing to go to the gym. Look how fat you are. You can’t beat the hell out of anything, sir.”
Cut to: Enoch, Spencer, and Anglin on a shaky internet line.
Enoch: [Chuckling] OK, so, that was probably my favorite moment.
Spencer: [Also laughing] That was very mean.
Enoch: It was, but it was great. Look, you’ve got to be mean. We’re not, like, holding people’s hands here.
Richard Spencer is clearly the celebrity here. He is well-spoken and articulate, with an MA in the Humanities from the University of Chicago. He’s been profiled by the Atlantic and Mother Jones, interviewed on Al Jazeera, Vice, and CNN. Speaking on the podcast, he sounds educated, confident, self-possessed. The meme-language of the internet alt-right — “If you’re not triggering them hard, you’re doing something wrong” — sits oddly in his mouth. His voice is somewhat lulling. So slick is the veneer he has constructed that it is almost surprising when he suddenly says something anti-Semitic, or racist. But this conversation, with Anglin and Enoch, two of the lead alt-right trolls, the Neo-Nazi and the Anti-Semite, lays bare the shared basis of their fascist politics.
The podcast is hosted on Enoch’s TheRightStuff.biz, a poorly designed blog that accepts BitCoin donations and features a Lexicon section that defines the elaborate codes of the alt-right. “Cuck,” a word most often applied to mainstream Republicans: “in general an epithet for a weak man, and a decent substitute for ‘faggot.’”
A “race cuck” on the other hand is “a huhwhite man who denies his birthright privilege for the sake of appeasing rent seeking darkies and signalling status to his oven middle class peers.” This single sentence is rich with alt-right codes and endless self-referential in-jokes: “huhwhite” is a reference to the way prominent white-supremacist Jared Taylor pronounces “white” with an affected, throaty first consonant, “rent seeking” describes populations that leverage their “victimhood” to leech off the hard-work of others, “signalling,” short for “status signalling,” is the practice of paying lip service to certain ideas in order to be accepted by liberal mainstreamers. The word “‘ovens,” used to refer to liberals, invokes the mass extermination of Jews in concentration camps, and was invented as a riposte to those who call alt-righters “Nazis.”
The title of the podcast itself, “Between Two Lampshades,” a play on the name of mainstream satirical talk show “Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis,” refers to the myth of the Nazi use of Jewish skin to make lampshades.
Act One: Taking stock
Spencer: We’re now in a post-November 8th situation. I was totally enthused by Trump, like we all were. We’re now in a new position . . . . I’m afraid that Trump really is going to be a big disappointment-burger for us to eat. And I think that we need to start, to keep pushing and keep hammering. And we need to say Trump was a stepping stone. Trump did something that I didn’t think — I personally, literally stated that I didn’t think any Republican would do this — and I was wrong. He did it. Hats off, I will have undying respect for him. But, we now need to keep pushing and it isn’t enough. That was the first step toward the identity politics that we want. But we need to keep pushing toward a different consciousness amongst people.
Anglin: I’m totally on board with you, but I think that identity politics are here now. He created this. This whole thing was a white identity movement. The whole Trump movement was about white identity, so we have that now. What are his policies going to be? Does it really even matter? I mean, obviously it does matter, and we wanna to keep pushing him to do whatever he can do and whatever he’s willing to do.
Identity politics, as the alt-right use it, is code for a politics of white identity. Spencer’s motto: “Race is real, race matters, and race is the foundation of identity.” Spencer means the white race, whose identity and culture he perceives as under threat from multiculturalism and demographic change. When Trump promised to Make America Great Again, and announced his intention to build a wall along the US-Mexico border, these white nationalists saw their opportunity. They flocked to support Trump’s campaign. But now that he is in the White House, they are asking themselves: what’s next for their movement?
Enoch: Trump now is just a vehicle. Let’s be honest, he always kinda was. . . . The man Trump maybe doesn’t matter so much. The meme of Trump is more important. And if we use that meme to our advantage . . . which I think we’ve been doing, so like, Trump is everyone’s heads, and they always think probably wrongly so . . .
Enoch: What’s going on? Hello? Hellooo?
Anglin: Yeah, who’s that?
Enoch: Can you guys hear me?
Anglin: Yeah, I can hear you.
Enoch: OK, I don’t know. Maybe Richard cut out. Shit. Man, now I lost my train of thought. He seems to still be on. Are you there, Richard? Yeah, he’s gone. You still there, Andrew?
Anglin: I am still here. I heard him say “fuck.”
Enoch: I heard him say “fuck.” I think his internet maybe went out. It’s alright. Ummm.
Anglin: Maybe it was a Mossad breaking into his window. [Laughing]
Enoch: Yeah, basically you heard the zip-line come down…[Anglin laughs]
Anglin: And he was like, “Fuck they’re here!” [Both men laughing]
Enoch: I hope that he’s actually OK. I see him. And I hear things coming through his mic.
Spencer: I’m back.
Enoch: So what happened? So that wasn’t Mossad breaking in and capturing you?
Spencer: [Chuckles] No.
Spencer sees himself as a mainstream figure, as someone who will bring the ideas of the white nationalist movement to the heart of Washington. He recently moved from his home in Whitefish, Montana, to a townhouse in Arlington, Virginia. Spencer told the Atlantic that it was “symbolic, in that it is a headquarters of sorts” for the alt-right, a base from which they can influence the Washington establishment.
Spencer: I don’t want this to sound like boasting, but I do have a lot of contacts in Washington. I’m not saying that these guys are in the Administration. I just know many people who work in Washington. And I get reports back that at every cocktail party, it’s like the Godwin rule, as time goes to infinity, every cocktail party will end up talking about the alt-right and Richard Spencer, given enough time. I’m not saying that to boast. I’m saying that we’ve gotten in their heads. We don’t have the money of the Heritage Foundation or whatever. But we have the power. And those people fear us and talk about us. And I think at a weird level the Left secretly wants us to rise.
Enoch: Oh, I don’t think it’s a secret…
Spencer: Because we are their secret, nightmare fantasy, come to life. We are what they always wanted the Right to be. To bring it back to A&M, I was joking with my friends. When Milo was going to campuses, people were protesting Milo as if he were Richard Spencer. But now Richard Spencer is on campus, and people are protesting me like I’m Darth Vader. There’s this way that we can use the paradigm against itself.
Anglin: It’s also, they’ve cried wolf. They’ve said, “This is a Nazi, this is a Nazi, this is a Nazi.” And now, what more do they have to say? People are just going to look at you and say, “Well, this guy must be like that other guy they called a Nazi, probably just normal.”
Spencer: That’s another good point. When you call Sarah Palin a Nazi, you’ve destroyed the term. It has no meaning.
Enoch: They don’t have any words for us that significantly differentiates us from what they’ve been saying about Republicans, and certainly what they’ve been saying about Trump. P.J. O’Rourke had this line, where it said something like: “Yeah, they call me a Nazi. And it’s not fair. But then again, I think that no one ever has sexual fantasies about getting tied up by a liberal.”
Spencer chuckles away, Enoch’s loud hearty laugh drowns him out. But still, they are worried about being taken seriously, and about “witch hunts” from the neo-con elements of right-wing politics.
Enoch: We could be accused of just becoming a stereotype, or becoming a meme ourselves. And just be doing this for our own egos or something like that. But really there is a point to this. We’re trying to take back our country. And we just need to get this idea out there and reach people.
Anglin: I really, really do care about this stuff. And this is something that matters to me a lot is getting all of this done. The same goals that we all have, that we want to accomplish. And I think some people look at my site, and the stuff that I do, and think this is either something insane or he’s wacky, he’s lost it. But there’s a method to what I’m doing. There is a method. And I think I’ve demonstrated it; how this gets young people excited and involved.
Anglin’s site the Daily Stormer is an online tabloid replete with the memes and codes of the alt-right; the green cartoon frog “Pepe,” adopted as a mascot by alt-righters, makes frequent appearances. In one meme, Anglin superimposes Hitler quotes over pictures of Taylor Swift, hailing her an “Aryan goddess.” He is proud of his so-called “Troll Army,” a group of anonymous white supremacist keyboard warriors he unleashes on journalists he doesn’t like, often “doxxing” them: revealing their personal details (address, phone number) online.
Anglin: This image of me as actually being crazy is not actually true. It’s sort of a meme, that I’m some raging neo-Nazi white supremacist. I do shave my head, but I have a receding hairline.
Act Two: Policy
1. End legal immigration.
Spencer: Again, I don’t want to get on my high horse and say, “I’m the greatest,” but, look, when I was on Al Jazeera and I said “Legal immigration is the problem, illegal is actually not that big of deal, but it really is legal immigration — that’s the thing we should focus on.” That is kind of a new idea that a lot of people haven’t really thought through. For us, that’s not shocking, but for your normie, that actually is shocking. I have delivered that idea to these normies in a way that millions of dollars and thousands of hours of kosher immigration reform have never done.
Enoch, Spencer, and Anglin all believe that Trump’s emphasis on illegal immigration is misplaced because it does not tackle the real issue, which is the entry to the U.S. of non-whites. They have no faith in mainstream conservatives, and think that only the alt-right will be able to articulate and push for policy to end all immigration.
Enoch: I think that we have a very good chance of getting some policies that we want with this Administration. I’m keeping my fingers crossed, and we’ll see. But I think the good thing about this line about legal immigration is the problem, and it’s not just illegals — I think both are problems — but, yeah, really, fundamentally what the problem is, is that we’re having people who are not . . . people that are aliens and don’t . . .
Anglin: They’re not us . . .
Enoch: They’re not us, they’re not our same race, they’re not our same culture, they’re not our same language. And they don’t want to be part of us, they just kinda want to rent-seek off the institutions that we’ve created, that they actually, frankly, are incapable of creating in their own countries. And will in fact lead to the downfall of those institutions here as well. So this is the problem. It’s legal or illegal, both can be problematic, because if the illegals have kids then they’re citizens. But the reason that the line about legal immigration strikes at the heart of the matter is cuz it takes away that legal/illegal excuse. There’s a lot of people who I think are getting this on an emotional level.
They do not elaborate on who exactly would be prevented from entering the United States if legal immigration is halted. But one can assume that white people would still be allowed to enter. They express deep admiration for the 1924 National Origins Act, which introduced quotas for immigration and excluded all immigrants from Asia.
Spencer: Madison Grant’s vision of the 1924 Act was actually to go back to the racial origins of the United States, before the great immigration wave. So it really was a Nordic, Anglo Act…
Anglin: He was trying to get rid of Italians…
Spencer: Yeah, he was. Remember Mexico was actually not mentioned in the 1924 Act, that was not the issue…
Enoch: Yeah, they were worried about Catholics, frankly . . .
Spencer: Yeah, he was trying to recreate a Nordic America. So it was a very radical act. Even people who defend it don’t quite understand how radical . . .
Enoch: We’re even cucks compared to them, frankly, because we are willing to accept Italians and Irish . . . [descends into breathy laughter] at least I am…
Anglin: I am . . .
Enoch: But this is also where that meme comes from of, like: Oh, the Irish used to be niggers, Italians used to be niggers, and it’s like, I get where they’re getting it . . .
Spencer: Yeah . . .
Enoch: But it’s also like, you’re just using that as a bullshit way to deconstruct this, so fuck you . . .
The Irish have always posed something of a problem for white supremacists. Noel Ignatiev’s How the Irish Became White is a seminal text of academic race studies, a discipline that views race as a social construct. Using the history of Irish immigrants in the mid-19th century, who were viewed as “Negroes turned inside out,” Iganatiev’s book charts their move into “whiteness” through assimilation and collusion in the oppression of African Americans. Nonetheless their Catholicism and their involvement in left-wing movements have historically made the Irish “renegade whites” or “race traitors” for some white supremacists.
Enoch: I really think when people bring that stuff up, “The Irish weren’t always white,” it’s like, you know what, I don’t have to engage in this nihilism . . .
Anglin: Well, it’s a way to push the idea that the Indians and whoever, Muslims, are going to integrate to the extent that the Irish and Italians did. [He hesitates slightly, trips over the words] I mean, I’m part Irish, I don’t usually admit that, but I’m doing to go ahead and say it…
Enoch: That’s fine!
Spencer: [Sarcastically] Oh my god!
[They all laugh]
Enoch: We’re going to have to hang up . . .
Spencer: Please stop this call . . .
Anglin: But I was raised Protestant. A lot of them settled in the Midwest after the Civil War, and it’s, like, a normal thing. A lot of people in America are part-Irish. I mean, in the Midwest, I’m mixed German, Anglo, and Irish . . .
Enoch: Yeah, it’s pretty normal . . .
Spencer: Yeah . . .
DNA home testing kits, like the cheek swabs sent in the post by 23andMe, are popular on the alt-right. In January, Spencer posted his results proudly to Twitter: 99.4% European — 31.9% British and Irish, 25.2% French and German, 6.7% Scandinavian.
Spencer: I recognize that some of my English ancestors thought the Irish were niggers. Yes, there is ethnic rivalry and ethnic bigotry, but that doesn’t diminish the power of race as a deeper and overriding concept. I might joke about being anti-Irish — I’d be a total idiot if I were anti-Irish. They’re obviously . . . I get along with them, they’re my people, and so on. It’s just a recognition of the power of race as really a dominant concept to ethnicity. Particularly as we enter a world where, for better or worse, religion is fading.
2. Replace Roe vs. Wade
Spencer, Anglin, and Enoch disagree on whether the overturning of Roe vs. Wade would be a good thing for the country and the movement. In this as in other respects, the alt-right deviate dramatically from traditional conservatism. They reject the “hot button” issues that animate mainstream Republican politics, including pro-life debates. Their concern is not the life of unborn children, but the use of Roe vs. Wade as a political tool against their opponents, and what policy around eugenics they might have in a future white ethno-state.
The issue brings out a strong divide, particularly between Anglin and Spencer.
Anglin: My point has always been that [Roe vs. Wade] is the cornerstone of Feminism, and that if you get rid of this, especially if you got rid of abortion and affirmative action, you would have a situation where Feminism just couldn’t exist anymore. These women would either have to get married or go be whores, they would have literally have no remaining options. And I think that would be a great thing for society. My thing, and I assume you guys probably agree with me, but the family is the most important thing of all, and that’s ultimately why the Jews are able to do all this stuff to us, because families have dissolved.
Anglin’s more blatant misogyny and Anti-Semitism sits uneasily with Spencer. He prefers a more gentle and nuanced approach to eugenics.
Spencer: I would say this, god, I hate saying this but, even in an ethno-state, in the Spencerian ideal, I think we have to have abortion legal. Particularly the late-term abortion that people talk about, and I agree that there is something really stomach-turning about it, look, these aren’t just feminist sluts who are having an abortion because their mood changed. These are really tragic situations. The idea of jailing women who have an abortion, or jailing doctors, I just think we just need to get over it. And we need to basically say: we want to encourage families. Families are the bedrock of society, undoubtedly. And we want to encourage people not to have an abortion. But I just think we just need to make our peace with this procedure. Going down the pro-life road, I just don’t think it leads anywhere.
Enoch: I see what you’re saying. It’s interesting that we’re talking about this, because it’s not something I usually talk about. My assumption is that it’s mainly a political distraction. I get both arguments here. I think that really this wouldn’t be such a huge deal in an ethno-state.
In the ethno-state, it seems, the focus will be on building the white race.
Spencer: I joked with a friend of mine that in the ethno-state we’ll have basically IQ-based contraception ratios. So, as your IQ increases, we will prevent you from using condoms. Someone will come into a drugstore, and be like, “I’ll have a pack of condoms, please.” And they’re like: “Alright, your driver’s license.” And it will have his genotype and IQ score. And he’s like: “Sorry . . . have you ever considered raw dog?”
[The gang descends into raucous, bro-ish laughter]
Enoch: The funny thing is, again, we’re talking about things that are common sense. Margaret Sanger knew this, right? She understood this. It’s funny when you get these conservatives that signal against her. I mean it makes sense that they would. And you get these feminists that . . . and I think some of them know but they don’t really want to face it. So they kind of just ignore it, or put it on the back-burner or pretend it doesn’t exist. Come on. There was an obvious racial aspect to this.
Anglin: She was open about it …
Enoch: She would even say “The Negro is simple-minded, we have to not let them have kids.” People used to say stuff like that.
In the ethno-state, the all-white world, high IQ men will be encouraged to breed as much as possible.
Spencer: I’m sure someone is gonna record this, and take this stuff out of context. But, look, guys, people with 85 IQs . . . I think probably we could have some responsible policy. Do you really want ten children? No. Can we help you plan a family?
Anglin: Paid sterilization. You could pay these people to be sterilized. And it’s ethical.
Enoch: Yeah, and we could start doing that today, if they would let us do it.
As the three men enthusiastically discuss the sterilization of women, one does wonder where the alt-right women are. For the most part their propaganda depicts blonde women in fields, lit by the setting sun, running their hands through stalks of corn.
3. Expand nuclear energy and build magnetic levitation trains
Enoch: These green groups, also led by people like Jill Stein, are blocking nuclear power. We haven’t built a new reactor since the ’70s. That’s stupid…
Spencer: There’s a weird alliance between far-left greens and the Saudi Arabia neo-cons, and so on, who are all focused on oil. That’s where we need to go.
“That’s where we need to go” means this is an area where the alt-right could stake a claim. Neither Republicans nor Democrats are agitating for expanding nuclear power. Oil means making deals with Muslim nations. To Spencer, et al, only the alt-right will be brave enough to demand a switch to what is, in their minds, the most common sense option: nuclear.
Spencer: This is where we need to shake things up. And we need to actually talk about real policy. I think metapolitics is hugely important. But this is where we do need to talk about policy. The fact that we don’t have a magnetic levitation train system in the United States and we’re just going through these airports! Tens of thousands of people die every year in car accidents . . . it’s such a goddamn clusterfuck! What we have. Have you ever ridden on Amtrak?!
[A peal of laughter from Anglin]
Magnetic levitation trains, a peculiar fixation for Spencer, currently only exist in Japan, Korea, and China. They travel at super-fast speeds, up to 268 mph, using electromagnetic suspension or electrodynamic suspension. He imagines using them to connect all the states and allow fast travel without cars.
Enoch: And there’s other places I think where we can insert policy proposals that are, in fact, more common sense, and people will scratch their heads like, “Why is it that this was never even presented as an option before?”
Anglin: This is a really good angle I think, to come up with this stuff and present it to the people. I mean, especially if we’re getting all this media attention. We can use that as the platform to promote ideas that just make basic common sense, and appeal to different segments of the population . . .
Enoch: [Already laughing at his own joke] Richard, if you really want to fuck with journalists, next time you do a major media interview [more chuckles] when they ask you what you’re about you should say: Nuclear Power. And you should explain it. I mean,why not, right? It’s not like you won’t have another interview.
[Anglin laughs too]
Anglin: Yeah, just make the whole thing about that, and about trains . . .
Enoch: Just see what happens. Be like, yeah listen, we’re having this issue . . .
Spencer: [Joining in on the joke] I’ve talked about race as this elaborate ploy to bring nuclear power into the national conversation..
Enoch: It would be a solid troll. But I think it would be one of those head-scratching moments where they wouldn’t know what to make of it.
4. Keep College For the Elite
Spencer: Less college. Think of how much misery college has caused. Not just in pausing people, which is obviously happening, and not just in terms of wasting opportunities, but just of saddling people with a hundred thousand dollars of debt for their whole lives. It’s just awful.
Another bright idea for alt-right policy: cut-back on higher education.
Enoch: I’m not a stupid guy, I don’t think. I mean, sometimes I am, but I dropped out of college after about a year and a half and went to work full-time. And the relief washed over me like an awesome wave. I was like: Thank god I don’t have to do that anymore.
Spencer: As the alt-right I think we can say, Look, maybe three percent of graduating seniors, or five percent, should go to college, and the rest of them can go to apprenticeships. They can go learn a trade.
It is a curious thing to hear from a man who has a Master’s degree from University of Chicago, and dropped out of a PhD program at Duke. One can only assume Spencer counts himself among this special few who would still be allowed access to the libraries and archives of universities.
Spencer: College is going to be for our cognitive elite. It is kind of like a monastery. It’s a place where you actually do things that are impractical. Where you take break from the world and contemplate the music of the spheres. This is what college is.
Anglin: Rather than a drunken fuck-fest . . .
Spencer: Right: we’re going to bring Negroes with 80 IQs to go play football and rape white cheerleaders? Who is benefitting from this? Or we’re just going to send people who don’t want to contemplate the music of the spheres, they just want to get a job? Why are they going to college? It’s just this insane thing. Let’s make college great again by basically having fewer go, making it impractical, and allowing people to learn trades.
It’s logical in a way. Universities are the safe-havens of ideas the alt-right hates: diversity, tolerance, exchange.
Enoch: It’s just this absurd system, and of course it supports this elite that is totally opposed to everything we stand for, is very powerful, they set the tone. Because people that graduate from these institutions at the top level go on to be journalists, go on to be politicians, etc. We definitely don’t need “the college.”
Act Three: Aftermath
Ending on a self-congratulatory note, the men look beyond their fixation with race, pleased with the policies they have outlined for a future white society.
Anglin: I think this is all stuff that makes a lot of sense for us to be talking about, just because nobody else is. This is what our vision is. Race is just the most immediate thing, this is what we’re all talking about because it’s so immediate. But it’s really not even the core thing that we’re talking about. We’re talking about creating a better society for ourselves, and something that makes sense, and will progress into the future for generations to come.
Enoch: Yeah, really we’re just about upturning this whole system and finding one that works, or rediscovering one that works and is beneficial to us.
This podcast episode gives us something we did not have before: a conception of alt-right policy, on a practical level, and a glimpse into their vision for the future of the land mass currently occupied by the United States.
This is what it would look like: A white ethno-state open only to Europeans and their descendants, criss-crossed by magnetic levitation trains and dotted with nuclear power plants. Quiet university lecture-halls populated by a small elite group of monk-like men. High IQ whites begging for condoms while low-IQ non-whites are paid to be sterilized. The “repatriation” of non-whites through “ethnic cleansing” that (Spencer says) doesn’t have to be bloody and violent the way it’s sometimes portrayed. It can be a peaceful and voluntary cleansing.
For now this dream lives only in the minds of three men on a shaky internet call, recording themselves howling into the digital abyss.
But to them it seemed like a glorious beginning. The following day Anglin posted the podcast to the Daily Stormer with the title “The First Triumvirate: Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch and Andrew Anglin,” a rhetorical gesture linking the first conversation between three alt-right leaders with the political alliance between Julius Caesar, Pompey the Great, and Marcus Licinius Crassus.
“We have different personalities and different methods,” Anglin wrote in the post, “but we share the same agenda, and it is this agenda that shall henceforth be focused on exclusively. Gone are the days of members of the Alt-Right bickering amongst themselves.”
This statement of unity turned out to be premature.
A month after the podcast aired, a group of far right posters on the site 8chan turned on Mike Enoch, angry at his suggestion that white-nationalists might make common cause with the extreme right-wing in Israel. Targeting their hacking tools at one of their own, the 8channers doxxed Enoch, revealing his real identity. Mike Enoch is, in fact, Mike Peinovich, a web developer living on New York’s wealthy Upper East Side. And they found something else. Enoch, the great Anti-Semite and inventor of the (((echoes))), was married to a Jewish woman. The revelation threw the alt-right into disarray. “(((Mike Enoch))) is a Jew himself,” wrote one online commenter. Enoch/Peinovich had been hoisted by his own parentheses.
Some of Enoch’s collaborators registered their shock, but defended him, saying he was separating from his wife and that they would not let the revelations divide the movement. For his part, Enoch recently appeared at the alt-right disruption of Shia LeBeouf’s performance art installation “He Will Not Divide Us,” outside the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens. “I’m here, I’m not going anywhere, Shlomo,” he told the camera, using the standard alt-right name for a Jew (the full name is Shlomo Shekelberg).
As Enoch says, the alt-right are not going anywhere for now, especially as Washington becomes ever more friendly to them. “Trump is a white nationalist, so to speak,” Spencer recently said. “He is alt-right whether he likes it or not.”